Paul Raven

Another World

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That is one cheesy ad with Sharon Gabet in it. That would not attract me as a viewer and get me to watch. Especially, if I was a fan of Raven/EON. 

 

Poisonous dust? Egyptian tombs? Jesus. I see why AW was probably flailing around this time. This was not a story I could see being told on a P&G soap. This just wreaks of an ABC daytime soap story (preferably GH or OLTL at the time). Even DAYS. Not AW.

 

So weird that ATWT was bouncing back around this time with simple, realistic storytelling while GL, SFT, and AW weren't. P&G should've picked up on this and sent a mandate to all the shows to stick to what they did best--human drama and family relationships. Thank God AW & GL bounced back by the end of the 80s.

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Thanks so much for all of these ads and the info. It's astonishing that she aired for just a month after this. She likely knew she was going when she filmed these terrific scenes with Rachel. What a huge waste. I guess that sums up P&G soaps by these years. 

 

Which of the firing decisions in '86 and early '87 did you agree with and which did you think were off?

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22 minutes ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

That is one cheesy ad with Sharon Gabet in it. That would not attract me as a viewer and get me to watch. Especially, if I was a fan of Raven/EON. 

 

Poisonous dust? Egyptian tombs? Jesus. I see why AW was probably flailing around this time. This was not a story I could see being told on a P&G soap. This just wreaks of an ABC daytime soap story (preferably GH or OLTL at the time). Even DAYS. Not AW.

 

The whole dust story had some segueway where a token black character (Carter Todd's father, I think) inhaled the dust before Mac and soon dropped dead, which meant it wasn't as bad for Mac (he just had a heart attack). That type of imagery would - well today it would probably still happen on soaps, as they're more regressive than ever, but it would probably get some deserved brickbats.

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54 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

The whole dust story had some segueway where a token black character (Carter Todd's father, I think) inhaled the dust before Mac and soon dropped dead, which meant it wasn't as bad for Mac (he just had a heart attack). That type of imagery would - well today it would probably still happen on soaps, as they're more regressive than ever, but it would probably get some deserved brickbats.

 

So basically the whole story arc was to kill off the Black character? <_<

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Here are what I feel are AW's 10 most dubious casting decisions:

 

1. Sandy and Blaine Cory move to California with children Maggie and Alex in 1985.  While we would see a teen age Maggie in the 90s and a recasted Sandy for a handful of episodes, Blaine and Alex would never return to the show.

 

2. Jacqueline Courtney's Alice should have never left in 1985.  Again, she should have been showcased in a Rachel / Mac / Alice triangle.   It would have been great to see Alice scheme against an amnesiac Rachel.  Would have been great karma for Rachel.   It could have also provided great material for Ada and Liz as they chose sides.

 

3. The killing of Sally Frame in a car accident in 1986 made no sense.  She was both a Matthews and Frame, in addition, she was a "surrogate child" to Mac and Rachel.  She could have driven years of story.  Her son, Kevin, could have been aged as well.  Had the character of Sally lived, I suspect at some point the show could have lured Mary Page Keller back to the role.  While she starred in a few short lived prime time series, she could have been an asset to AW in the 90s.

 

4. The dismissal of Irene Dailey's Liz Matthews in 1986.  She was off of AW for approximately 18 months.  When she returned in late 1987, she was on recurring status.  I'm not sure why she wasn't put on recurring status in 1986 instead of being written off the show.

 

5. Cass and Kathleen left the show in late 1986- and a Cass look-alike returned in mid-1987 with Kathleen having died in a plane crash.  The fallout from the Cass look-alike lasted briefly, and Kathleen would turn up alive years later in the witness protection program.

 

6. The recast of Donna Love with Philece Sampler in 1987 was terrible.  She was all wrong for the part.  No doubt that NBC selected Sampler because of her popularity on DAYS.  It was a relief when Anna Stuart returned to the show.

 

7. Jane Cameron's Nancy was written off in 1987. She returned briefly in 1989 for the 25th Anniversary and in 1993 for Ada's funeral.  At some point, the character should have returned to the show full time.  The show created the character of Paulina.  They could have brought back Nancy instead of even creating Paulina.  Nancy always flirted with Jake , and she was always an ally of Marley and enemy of Vicky.  Cali Timmons/ Judi Evans could have easily have been a recasted Nancy- a character who was Ada's daughter and Rachel's sister.

 

8. Nancy Frangione's Cecile returned for short visits in 1986, 1989, and 1993.  In October, 1995, it looked like Frangione was willing to return to the show on a permanent basis.  She was written out in 1996 with little fanfare.  The show used her as a recurring character and wasted a great opportunity to have a villain on the show.

 

9. The characters of Jamie Frame and Iris Wheeler were written out of the show in the mid-90s.  Both characters were seldom mentioned and could have been used effectively in the show's latter years.

 

10.  The character of Ryan Harrison died on-screen, only to return the next year as a ghost.  The show should have had the character of Ryan fall from the train trestle with Justine, rather than shooting him in the back by Grant.   Clearly, Paul Michael  Valley was willing to return to the show.   Ryan's body could have "disappeared" only to return alive rather than rely on the ghost storyline.

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Great suggestions, especially about Nancy. I never knew why they just forgot they existed. I think at one time in the mid-80s they almost brought Rachel's other sister Pammy in too.

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33 minutes ago, watson71 said:

8. Nancy Frangione's Cecile returned for short visits in 1986, 1989, and 1993.  In October, 1995, it looked like Frangione was willing to return to the show on a permanent basis.  She was written out in 1996 with little fanfare.  The show used her as a recurring character and wasted a great opportunity to have a villain on the show.

 

9. The characters of Jamie Frame and Iris Wheeler were written out of the show in the mid-90s.  Both characters were seldom mentioned and could have been used effectively in the show's latter years.

 

10.  The character of Ryan Harrison died on-screen, only to return the next year as a ghost.  The show should have had the character of Ryan fall from the train trestle with Justine, rather than shooting him in the back by Grant.   Clearly, Paul Michael  Valley was willing to return to the show.   Ryan's body could have "disappeared" only to return alive rather than rely on the ghost storyline.

 

While I loved Lila, I felt that after Frankie was killed off, Cecile should've been the woman Cass ended up with. Also, Cecile being the butt of every joke in her last stint was embarrassing. Along with her putting Maggie in danger to get her trust fund. Having watched clips/episodes of Cecile from the 80s, that seems even farfetched for her to do that to Maggie. 

 

Iris remaining in jail as long as she did was stupid. They should've brought Iris/Carmen Duncan back around '97 when the show skidded off the tracks and they had Carl obsessively feuding with Grant for the 100th time. Jamie should've been brought back around that time too to take over the hospital instead of bringing on Bobby Reno, who was garbage casting coup and stupid character. 

 

I've always felt Ryan should've just remained in a coma until PMV wanted to return, which was he following year. Vicky with Bobby and later Jake was just horrible. I always looked at Vicky with major side eye for marrying Jake after the history of him raping Marley. I bought their tense friendship but never could support that pairing. 

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3 hours ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

 

While I loved Lila, I felt that after Frankie was killed off, Cecile should've been the woman Cass ended up with. Also, Cecile being the butt of every joke in her last stint was embarrassing. Along with her putting Maggie in danger to get her trust fund. Having watched clips/episodes of Cecile from the 80s, that seems even farfetched for her to do that to Maggie. 

 

Iris remaining in jail as long as she did was stupid. They should've brought Iris/Carmen Duncan back around '97 when the show skidded off the tracks and they had Carl obsessively feuding with Grant for the 100th time. Jamie should've been brought back around that time too to take over the hospital instead of bringing on Bobby Reno, who was garbage casting coup and stupid character. 

 

I've always felt Ryan should've just remained in a coma until PMV wanted to return, which was he following year. Vicky with Bobby and later Jake was just horrible. I always looked at Vicky with major side eye for marrying Jake after the history of him raping Marley. I bought their tense friendship but never could support that pairing. 

I agree about Cecile.  My biggest problem with her return in 1995 was when the writers chose to rewrite history and try to say that Cass was Maggie's father.   Cass was not even on the show when Cecile played both Jamie and Sandy into thinking they were Maggie's father.   Cecile could have been a real asset to the show in those final years.

 

The Bobby/Shane story was a mess.  A terrible, convoluted mess of a story.  Ryan should have never died.  I could have bought a Jake/ Vicky/ Ryan story.

 

 

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Since the latter years have been brought up, can someone explain Bobby Reno/Shane Roberts, Alexander Nikos, and Anne O'Donnell to me? 

 

I don't know how popular Sam was, but on the subject of the other two, if Show had two popular actors who were willing to come back in John Aprea and Alice Barrett, why not resurrect the popular characters they played? 

 

Also, once the Nikos story actually ended, what was going on with Carl leading up to his last "death?" Had Matt and Amanda actually driven him insane, or did they blame everything on the plot device tumor they pulled out at Key West the last week of the show? Did he really try to have Rachel killed, or was he doing things and not realizing he was doing them?

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50 minutes ago, katie_9918 said:

Since the latter years have been brought up, can someone explain Bobby Reno/Shane Roberts, Alexander Nikos, and Anne O'Donnell to me? 

 

I don't know how popular Sam was, but on the subject of the other two, if Show had two popular actors who were willing to come back in John Aprea and Alice Barrett, why not resurrect the popular characters they played? 

 

Also, once the Nikos story actually ended, what was going on with Carl leading up to his last "death?" Had Matt and Amanda actually driven him insane, or did they blame everything on the plot device tumor they pulled out at Key West the last week of the show? Did he really try to have Rachel killed, or was he doing things and not realizing he was doing them?

 

I think the claim may have been that if the show had gone on Anne would be revealed as Frankie or Frankie would return. I can't remember. I think the idea of Aprea as a new character wasn't that bad, but the execution was awful and so wildly out of step with the much smaller show AW had become (that Malone did not seem to really understand). 

 

The brain tumor got the blame. 

 

He was trying to test Rachel. I think the idea was that he'd assumed she would fail the test. She didn't, so he jumped in front of the gun meant for her.

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i remember reading the speculation that before AW got the cancellation notice Alice Barrett was going to return as Frankie but I would have been interested in learning how. She didn't die off-screen.We not only watched her death but we watched Cass visit her in the morgue holding her dead, bruised body to say his goodbyes. It would be hard to explain how Cass held her cold, life-less body without noticing.

 

Cecile is one of my favorite daytime characters of all time and I agree that after Frankie was killed she should have been the one to reach out to Cass to comfort him. Of course, everyone in town would assume she was up to something and scheming but would have been nice to show that she genuinely loved him and just trying to bring him out of the darkness. 

 

When the show wrote out Michael, John, and Sharlene they should have refocused back on Rachel's family like others have said above. That would have been the time to bring back Iris, Jamie, and Nancy. Some kind of family crisis/scare for Rachel maybe causing them to return. 

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2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

I think the claim may have been that if the show had gone on Anne would be revealed as Frankie or Frankie would return. I can't remember. I think the idea of Aprea as a new character wasn't that bad, but the execution was awful and so wildly out of step with the much smaller show AW had become (that Malone did not seem to really understand). 

 

The brain tumor got the blame. 

 

He was trying to test Rachel. I think the idea was that he'd assumed she would fail the test. She didn't, so he jumped in front of the gun meant for her.

 

It would have been pretty difficult to bring Frankie back, but at the same time I can't help thinking that any excuse would have worked for a good portion of the audience.

 

Wow. That really is horrifying. I can't imagine what VW and CK were thinking playing those scenes out. After all Carl and Rachel had been through, to end like that? What the hell were they thinking?

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1 hour ago, Melroser said:

When the show wrote out Michael, John, and Sharlene they should have refocused back on Rachel's family like others have said above. That would have been the time to bring back Iris, Jamie, and Nancy. Some kind of family crisis/scare for Rachel maybe causing them to return. 

 

Malone was asked about bringing back Iris and basically said they were concentrating on younger characters. 

1 hour ago, katie_9918 said:

 

Wow. That really is horrifying. I can't imagine what VW and CK were thinking playing those scenes out. After all Carl and Rachel had been through, to end like that? What the hell were they thinking?

 

Well it didn't help that supposedly the firing was mandated by an NBC exec - I imagine that must have been even more disorienting (I think the same one who got Norm McDonald canned). Wyndham said that she felt the network or P&G wanted her to quit in AW's last years, but she wouldn't, because of the fans. 

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On 11/13/2016 at 7:28 PM, watson71 said:

Here are what I feel are AW's 10 most dubious casting decisions:

 

1. Sandy and Blaine Cory move to California with children Maggie and Alex in 1985.  While we would see a teen age Maggie in the 90s and a recasted Sandy for a handful of episodes, Blaine and Alex would never return to the show.

 

2. Jacqueline Courtney's Alice should have never left in 1985.  Again, she should have been showcased in a Rachel / Mac / Alice triangle.   It would have been great to see Alice scheme against an amnesiac Rachel.  Would have been great karma for Rachel.   It could have also provided great material for Ada and Liz as they chose sides.

 

3. The killing of Sally Frame in a car accident in 1986 made no sense.  She was both a Matthews and Frame, in addition, she was a "surrogate child" to Mac and Rachel.  She could have driven years of story.  Her son, Kevin, could have been aged as well.  Had the character of Sally lived, I suspect at some point the show could have lured Mary Page Keller back to the role.  While she starred in a few short lived prime time series, she could have been an asset to AW in the 90s.

 

4. The dismissal of Irene Dailey's Liz Matthews in 1986.  She was off of AW for approximately 18 months.  When she returned in late 1987, she was on recurring status.  I'm not sure why she wasn't put on recurring status in 1986 instead of being written off the show.

 

5. Cass and Kathleen left the show in late 1986- and a Cass look-alike returned in mid-1987 with Kathleen having died in a plane crash.  The fallout from the Cass look-alike lasted briefly, and Kathleen would turn up alive years later in the witness protection program.

 

6. The recast of Donna Love with Philece Sampler in 1987 was terrible.  She was all wrong for the part.  No doubt that NBC selected Sampler because of her popularity on DAYS.  It was a relief when Anna Stuart returned to the show.

 

7. Jane Cameron's Nancy was written off in 1987. She returned briefly in 1989 for the 25th Anniversary and in 1993 for Ada's funeral.  At some point, the character should have returned to the show full time.  The show created the character of Paulina.  They could have brought back Nancy instead of even creating Paulina.  Nancy always flirted with Jake , and she was always an ally of Marley and enemy of Vicky.  Cali Timmons/ Judi Evans could have easily have been a recasted Nancy- a character who was Ada's daughter and Rachel's sister.

 

8. Nancy Frangione's Cecile returned for short visits in 1986, 1989, and 1993.  In October, 1995, it looked like Frangione was willing to return to the show on a permanent basis.  She was written out in 1996 with little fanfare.  The show used her as a recurring character and wasted a great opportunity to have a villain on the show.

 

9. The characters of Jamie Frame and Iris Wheeler were written out of the show in the mid-90s.  Both characters were seldom mentioned and could have been used effectively in the show's latter years.

 

10.  The character of Ryan Harrison died on-screen, only to return the next year as a ghost.  The show should have had the character of Ryan fall from the train trestle with Justine, rather than shooting him in the back by Grant.   Clearly, Paul Michael  Valley was willing to return to the show.   Ryan's body could have "disappeared" only to return alive rather than rely on the ghost storyline.

My take on this

1. Once Mac died,that whole side of the Cory family lost importance. What explanation was given as to why S&B didn't come to Mac's funeral?

Bringing in Maggie,only highlighted that the 'real' Sandy and Blaine weren't available.Maybe if Laura Malone could have been persuaded to make a few appearances?

2. Agree that Jacquie C should have been kept and written for. A relationship with Mac or Mitch (both of which would have respected history) could have kept Rachel and Alice in conflict.

3. Killing Sally.Well, Taylor Miller was leaving and had not been accepted as Sally.Maybe she should have been Marianne Randolph instead? Perhaps Sally has some kind of breakdown and decides to leave Bay City with Kevin.Although that would leave Catlin in limbo.

4. Writing off Liz.This was a mistake. This was the very time that the Matthews needed strengthening.Why not bring in Ricky Matthew,Liz's grandson'.They could have referenced his paternity as part of his character.He could seek out some relatives and mistakenly bond with them,much to Liz's dismay.Mike and Marianne,Russ and a long lost daughter would have been good choices at this time.

5. Cass and Kathleen. Killing off Kathleen was a mistake.I would have Cass return solo as he and Kathleen were having issues.He could sleep with someone who get's pregnant and then Kathleen returns (a recast) and they set about trying to reconcile.The whole pregnancy thing comes out etc

6.Philece should have been Nicole. Sofia Landon as Donna?

7. agree Nancy was tossed away.I'm sure Jane Cameron would have returned.Judi Evans as Nancy is interesting too. Never liked the concept of the Paulina character.

8. Cecile should have been major upon her return. Both character and actress were gold.

9. Re Jamie and Iris. Jamie had been recast so many times and been through a lot of story.I'd rather have him out of town and making appearances when necessary.I wonder if Richard Bekins would have been happy to pop in. from time to time? Same with Iris.

10.Agree re Ryan.

 

Pam and Gerald Davis definitely should have returned. How about Gail Brown/Clarice drops in with teen Cory to spend some time with Ada?

Edited by Paul Raven

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