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That seems to be a mentality of some but I don't agree with it. The only war where we had a draft where there huge polarization was Vietnam and that was because it wasn't our war, no different than Iraq. WWi started out with a good percentage of the population wanting us to stay out of it. WW 2 was in some ways the same until Pearl Harbor. Families tend to take a,different view of war and the draft when it involves a war that you really have no place in. And sending Americans into combat should be a thoughtful decision, not just some factless decision of alleged Weapons of Mass Destruction. People in this country might have given greater thought to Iraq if those men were forced into serving another countries interests versus our own.

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Of course you're fighting her battles, Wales, because Ann never has the guts to stand up to me directly. Spineless behavior, throwing hatespeak and untruths out like that, then having someone else rush to defend. Pitiful. She IS vile; her collective comments in this forum have been divisive, hateful and would have been considered as such if her words had been uttered and charges leveled by me, Max or any other right-leaning poster against Democrats in this forum and you absolutely know that. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

Other posters here temper their remarks and, even where there is disagreement, rarely if ever stoop to the level Ann consistently does. I have had enough of it and I have and will continue to call out those who make such vile and digusting charges. It is over the top partisanship and has no place in civil discourse.

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Well, since you asked and I DO work for a living (ACTUAL work, not sitting behind a desk pushing buttons) I can tell you that I had the best year I've ever had, and all of my customers have been doing well also, otherwise they wouldn't be able to afford to have me do work in their yards. This year I've been able to pay all my bills, upgrade my computer, replace all the carpet in my house, get a new crystal chandelier for the bedroom, new eyeglasses, new dresser, new rabbit fur throw pillows for the sofa, and get my carport fixed. In the last month, I've been as busy as I usually am in MAY, and I'm still installing jobs even later today, the day before thanksgiving. And every one of my customers are liberal Obama supporters, and are very generous in referring me to others for work because I do good work and do it for about 50% less than the larger companies in town which will just send a crew of mexicans out to do your work. The only two times I've been told I charge too much is by conservatives.... one had illegal aliens do their work for 5 dollars an hour, and other didn't have the work done at all (she thought my minimum charge of 15$ was too high)

Edited by alphanguy74
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So I watched exciteable Ed for several minutes last night make a case for why the Republicans are using racist tinged code words against Susan Rice. John McCain suggested that she's not very bright and ITA with Ed, how does someone who selected Sarah Palin as a running mate question anyone else's intelligence. I don't recall what Lindsay Graham said thatr was supposed to be coded. Then there's the letter from the 97 Republican Reps who preemptively obeject to her nomination. And I still see this as an anti-Barack Obama issue and Susan Rice is a false target.

Michael Eric Dyson's convoluted explanation of why it's a racial attack on her lost me and Karen Finney made it both racial and an attack on a woman.

I know that Susan Rice has a great academic background but she's an enigma to me and maybe that's why I still leant towards it being more about a fight with the President than it being about whether they're really questioning her qualifications. They're still worked up over not being able to find evidence that confirms their Benghazi conspiracy theories and she happens ro be an easy target for them to use against him, even if it makes nbo sense.

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While this is true, I agree with Jane. We're no longer a nation at war, we're a nation that sends people to war and then goes on with our business. Even if the wealthy manage to avoid the draft (which I like to think would be a lot harder to do today than it used to be) we as a nation would still have to face up to the cost. Plus a draft would make war less profitable for civilian contractors. Maybe if fewer people got rich from wars we could manage to stay out of them a little better.

I'm pretty sure that one of the reasons Mitt Romney was so eager to go to war with Iran is that he personally knows people who would profit. In fact, I'm sure he's one of them.

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But we had the draft and Vietnam still lasted just over 10 years which is not much different from the length of the Iraqi war. Lots of people supported the Vietnam war until it started to drag out, much like what has happened with the war in Iraq. I think that the government propaganda machine is always good at getting people on board with wars/invasions with an assist from their media allies. Create an enemy that must be defeated or America's influence and the world will collapse. I remember looking around perplexed as the majority of American people allowed themselves to be deceived into supporting the invasion of Iraq over what were obvious lies about weapons of mass destruction.

I had not considered the negative impact of the draft on war profiteering. It is a good argument. However, wouldn't the military industrial complex benefit regardless since they will have lots of weapon orders to fill?

Edited by Ann_SS
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I've thought about that. The manufacturing aspect for weapons would probably be the same. But that part of military contracting that supplies people would be forced to fall away if for no other reason than the people who now work for those companies would be part of the actual military so they would be making combat pay not exorbitant contract wages. With those people gone, the machine around them (housing, entertainment, the best weapons money can buy, etc...) would have to become focused on supplying those things to our actual military which means that maybe our troops could get the body armor they deserve or showers where they don't get electrocuted. The population at large would care a lot more about the conditions our troops have to deal with because they might know a few more of them.

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Somehow I missed this so I'll take a shot at responding now. Let me begin with lessons learned from the internet and sports radio talk shows: people often mistake their opinions for facts and people are rather intolerant of opinions that are not the same as their own. I know it can be frustrating but how boring would the world be if everyone thought the same way about everything?

Uhm no, I'm not. I made a mistake in even beginning what I had to say with that because I didn't want to appear presumptuous. Consider that it takes more strength to ignore attacks than it does to engage in futile exchanges. In my observation, it's a waste of time to engage in debates where people are set in their ways. It's even more wasteful when part of those debates include name calling.

Plus this whole thing about having guts sounds a bit like schoolyard bullying to me. Do adults really conduct themselves in this manner? If so, I am extremely thankful and blessed that I don't know any grown-up who does.

Really???? Who did they divide? (rhetorical btw). I object to your categorization of as being vile. I'm pretty certain that I disagree with her on a number of things and it hasn't caused me to feel or believe she is vile. In fact, I disagree with you on a whole host of things and have not come to that conclusion about you either.

I'm pretty certain that most people on this board disagree with my opinions and think or feel they know something about me based on them. I get lessons on race (specifically black people) pretty often and it hasn't sent me into any type of rage. In fact, I generally find it amusing when people cannot accept that I have a differing opinion and feel the need to teach me about black people. It's a crime that I don't believe in the whole monolith business or I couldn't possibly know what it's like or whatever. Human is human to me. I don't know green, orange, or purple people and I do care if I see any and I can tell a story about someone who I encounter without mentioning race.

My drumbeat sounds fantastic. I'm awesome but not perfect. And I try not to insult people just because they can't see my face. Anonymity does not embolden me to be rude on the internet. If you can see the speck in her eye, what about the mote in your own? It might be worth considering.

One of the things I find most annoying about ESPN's Skip Bayless is that in his "debates" (which amount to nothing but illogical ranting at times), he has this tendency to say "you know it and I know it." No, I don't know it. I'm not big on anyone telling me what I know because of course, only I know what I know. Then to make it absolute is even worse. Oh and I'm pretending if I don't agree with you. Do you actually like people to communicate with you in that way?

Consider me disingenuous then. It's been my observation that even though Max may get into disagreements with others and that he has acknowledged labeling other posters things he regrets and has apologized in those instances.

Calling someone's words vile is different from calling the person vile. Even though you may believe in your truth, there may be others who find it vile. Are they any more right than you are with your opinions? No. Are they wrong? To them not but to you they may be way off base. We all see things through our own eyes and we can all see the same thing very differently.

You're probably a great guy with whom I disagree on a number of things but probably agree with on a number of things as well. A lot of people probably miss out on the chance to interact with others on certain levels because they judge people based on things that might not be as significant as the things on which they miss out as a result.

I'm glad we had a chance to interact and I wish you all the best. But I'm not going to continue to interact with you because I believe you're wrong in this and I'm committed to being a fair person and this goes against that for me. Be well!!

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Typical. As another pointed out, this is a "liberal circle jerk". I see there is no room for opposing opinions. Wolves travel in packs, ya'll can hunt together... I understand. I belong with those of a like mind, as well.

Best wishes to all.

Edited by GoldenDogs
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Your response is an indication that you have either never read anything I post or you simply don't understand my posts--especially the one from which you lifted the excerpt that you misinterpreted.

How odd is it that you are from a party that pretends to be superior in Christian values and yet when faced with them you cannot discern them at all.

Simply put, as a Christian or more accurately someone who strives to be a good Christian, I don't find it necessary to insult someone because he or she does not share my opinions, values, or thought processes. If you don't or cannot understand that then too bad.

Maybe you'll try reading and comprehending in the future before you let your emotions get the best of you.

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I don't get the preoccupation with Susan Rice or maybe I'm just finding it hard to believe. They're very afraid of Hilary Clinton so they're trying to pretend that Susan Rice is in charge of State Department decisions. I just find it hard to believe that rational people actually vote for these clowns.

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