Toups

The Politics Thread

13,841 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, rhinohide said:

 

Not surprising at all.

 

Also, I think 51% of America's Billion dollar startups were started by immigrants.

 

The U.S. heavily restricts immigration and becomes, what Japan?  Economically Japan has been in and out of stagnation mode for almost twenty years now and their population demographics are completely askew.

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I think this move tonight was Rachel simply playing chess, but majority of America is too slow and prefers to play checkers. 

 

I didn't expect for the scandalous tax returns to be leaked tonight. But the fact that one of the returns was leaked tonight simply lets us all know that there will be more in the future. 

 

I think whomever is releasing those tax returns are building a narrative until the trigger is pulled and all is exposed. Kudos for Rachel for continuing to connecting the dots--something which the dolts on her network or CNN choose not to do. 

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2 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

More Goldman Sachs people for Trump, yet Hillary's speaking engagements were a huge deal somehow. Trump must've been jealous that she was getting paid for speeches and he has to run chasing these people.

The people who voted for him to "drain the swamp" should really be embarrassed right now.

 

Most of the people who voted for him never cared about that - that was Bernie and Jill Stein supporters who likely thought she would win and they would just rough her up first to make her more compliant, or that Trump really was no different than Hillary.

 

As for the tax returns, to be honest I just don't see what the point is now, just as I don't see the point of that woman arguing with Sean Spicer in the supermarket and saying he threatened her, and so on. I feel like these are all shell games to the real stories going on - like the one today about the Senate voting to lift Obama's ban on too much drug testing in the workplace.

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7 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

Most of the people who voted for him never cared about that - that was Bernie and Jill Stein supporters who likely thought she would win and they would just rough her up first to make her more compliant, or that Trump really was no different than Hillary.

 

Well, we know that many Bernie supporters (who also claimed Hillary was corrupt) did vote for Trump so my point still stands. They should be embarrassed for their vote. 

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A fairly tame tax return being released lends legitimacy to Trump detractors, because it lessens the chances of Republicans being able to claim that possible leaks in the future are not legitimate. This leaves very little room for anyone to claim unfairness towards Trump and that is what the opposition needs, an image of being a strong opposition, but one based in reality. Had more right-leaning sources been able to frame this out of the gate, it would have benefited Trump. We all want Trump to be held accountable, but to get to that point everything has to be done on the level.

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6 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

Well, we know that many Bernie supporters (who also claimed Hillary was corrupt) did vote for Trump so my point still stands. They should be embarrassed for their vote. 

 

They won't be, as they can just say Hillary is to blame for losing and she obviously had something to hide, and so on. 

 

These are stupid, selfish people living in towers looking down at the peasants. This was the last election where purity contests should have been so dominant, yet that's exactly what happened. It was obvious to anyone with sense that while Hillary was cozy with Wall Street, she was still going to provide more checks and balances than Trump and a GOP Congress would. But people assumed she would win and Trump would lose, and that this was the best way to box her in. Or they talked themselves into believing that both were the same. This gave the media an opening to go on and on and on about it. 

 

The average voter likely doesn't know the difference between Goldman Sachs and the Benny Hill song. The people who did know the difference screwed us all over.

3 minutes ago, ReddFoxx said:

A fairly tame tax return being released lends legitimacy to Trump detractors, because it lessens the chances of Republicans being able to claim that possible leaks in the future are not legitimate. This leaves very little room for anyone to claim unfairness towards Trump and that is what the opposition needs, an image of being a strong opposition, but one based in reality. Had more right-leaning sources been able to frame this out of the gate, it would have benefited Trump. We all want Trump to be held accountable, but to get to that point everything has to be done on the level.

 

It still benefits Trump because it means the next time there is a "breaking" story on this, more people will automatically tune it out, as they remember the overhype of the last time. 

 

But Rachel Maddow, like everyone else at MSNBC, is more interested in what people think of her than of the greater good. 

Edited by DRW50

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4 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

It still benefits Trump because it means the next time there is a "breaking" story on this, more people will automatically tune it out, as they remember the overhype of the last time. 

 

But Rachel Maddow, like everyone else at MSNBC, is more interested in what people think of her than of the greater good. 

If returns are leaked that show there were years that he didn't pay any taxes it would be hard for anyone to ignore. Had MSNBC sat on this story, someone would have found out and it really would have supported Trump's paranoia about the media being out to get him. There really was no choice but to report this.

 

That said, nothing really damning is going to be released so far away from an election. If someone does have the goods, they won't spill it too early.

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Just now, ReddFoxx said:

If returns are leaked that show there were years that he didn't pay any taxes it would be hard for anyone to ignore. Had MSNBC sat on this story, someone would have found out and it really would have supported Trump's paranoia about the media being out to get him. There really was no choice but to report this.

 

That said, nothing really damning is going to be released so far away from an election. If someone does have the goods, they won't spill it too early.

 

I don't think it had to be sat on but it should have been reported a different way. 

 

If there's one thing I wish that those in the media had learned from the election it's that going after Trump directly doesn't work. He's teflon, because people spent so much time attacking him that many are simply numb to it. The greatest strengths from the left and the middle and sane conservatives so far has been in going after his associates, causing them to resign or be discredited, and leaking info in a way that causes paranoia and for him to turn against his own. 

 

I do get what you're saying...I just think that the way she handled this comes across as more inside baseball smirking, the kind that usually involves the press being more focused on how awesome they are than on the world burning around them. 

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I agree. She drove me up the wall and deeply miscalculated her much larger than usual audience. But at least the tax drip-drop is going to keep coming. And the focus will make him crazy.

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It's a mistake to lump all Bernie supporters together.  I think all politicians are corrupted.  HRC's close association with Wall Street disturbed me tremendously. But as the Senator from New York it made sense. I also thought she was too hawkish and her support for the invasion of Iraq was troublesome to me. 

 

Trump scared me enough that I voted for her anyway. I didn't agree with NAFTA and TPP either. Or the Iran nuclear deal. But I still supported President Obama. 

 

now we have this, and I'm genuinely terrified. 

 

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a53848/trump-executive-order-reorganization/

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37 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

This is why I never ever bought that economic insecurity narrative.

 

Fear of Diversity Made People More Likely to Vote Trump

Everyone is not motivated by the same things and I've come to find all this analysis useless--especially after the fact. The smarter we all become, the easier it is for us to convince ourselves that we're intellectually savvy enough to know what everyone else is feeling.

 

I used to often hear that politics, race, and religion were topics to avoid because discussions could get heated. Now it's more like those topics could be deadly. And the thing is that we're supposed to be so much smarter than people used to be but somehow we seem to have become less civil.

Edited by Wales2004

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2 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Speaking of analysis coming out after the fact...:blink:

 

Official: Sanders shares blame for minors voting in primary

 

This is relatively minor but good to see an instance of an elected official taking onus.

 

I am still, however waiting for evidence of those supposed millions of illegal immigrants who supposedly voted in the general election. :rolleyes:

 

Bernie's campaign did such a piss poor job of educating its voters about what was necessary to vote. That's part of the reason they didn't know the difference between open and closed primaries then had the nerve to call that voter suppression and somehow blame Hillary or the DNC for rigging. Both Hillary and Obama before her had a way you could put in your address and they would tell you everything you needed to vote: whether the primary was open or closed, your polling location, what type of ID you needed, etc...

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