The Politics Thread

[Juliajms]

I agree with you and I think it has happened all over the country.  Sure, it's a little more shocking in places like NYC where you think people are more cosmopolitan. However, I've lived in many parts of this country and there was a pretty strong veneer of acceptance for the most part. Of course racism is always there, but now it's emboldened. People are just flat out coming out with it with no sense of shame and they even feel justified in committing acts of violence.

 

[Juliajms]

In other news, Angela Merkel is calling for a ban on the burqa:

http://www.theatlantic.com/liveblogs/2016/12/news-today/509687/12272/?utm_source=atltw

 

 

[DramatistDreamer]

 

I saw the headline on this yesterday, and it struck me as a purely political move to try to cut through the backlash she received regarding the acceptance of Syrian refugees before the coming elections.

 

When France tried to implement this policy, I don't think it had the intended consequences- in fact, I think it ratcheded up the rhetoric even more with no beneficial results to anyone except the Burkini lady.

We'll see, I guess. (shrugs).

[DRW50]

 

The idea is likely to appeal to middle-class voters, but what it really does is leave those who are affected by the ban feeling dejected and angry, while leaving those who ardently support the ban wanting more and more. It's outdated pandering for a modern world where there is less and less of a "middle." And the segregation of Muslims in Europe is one of the reasons this has built up so much - these types of policies won't make that any better. 

[Juliajms]

^ Yeah, it seems like a mistake to let 1 million people in and then put a restriction on their religion. I read she's trying to send 10% of them back, but still.

[DRW50]

 

Many European countries had a policy of what amounted to letting in a lot of people from predominantly Muslim countries but essentially keeping them segregated. Some said that people should be "forced" to follow new customs, to learn the native tongue, this and that, but that doesn't really work either. What would work is a policy that allows for and encourages integration and yet respects the culture of the immigrant. Some say, "Respecting the culture means you encourage bigotry and treating women like property" and so on, but that doesn't have to be the case. That's just a stereotype because it's easier to scapegoat millions of people. Many of these people are leaving their country because they want and need a new life. If they are allowed the opportunity then they may want to be more like their new world. They are instead essentially kept at arm's length and reminded that they're strangers. 

 

The US used to be better at assimilating new cultures (although I realize they had far less mass immigration than France, Germany, Netherlands, etc. in recent years), but with the fearmongering, polarization, and open bigotry and violence against not just immigrants, but people who have been here all their lives and just happen to have a skin color that is deemed unacceptable, that is less and less likely to be the case. I really want to believe that the best of American ideals and freedoms will survive even in these coming years. 

 

This Taiwan stuff gets more and more strange. We live in an odd world when Bob Dole, a man who essentially was relegated to Viagara ads after 1996, has more influence on our international policies than the State Department. 

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/bob-dole-donald-trump-taiwan-232266

Edited December 7, 2016 by DRW50

[DramatistDreamer]

ICYMI, relying on militias can be a dicey proposition, even when there is little else choice but Libyans are cautiously optimistic about driving out Daesh:

 

Jubilant Libyan Militias Declare Victory Over ISIS in Surt

 

[GMac]

 

The other day, I had posted on my FB the story of the American Vanguard poster that showed up on Purdue's campus claiming that white supremacists "we have a right to exist".  When I shared that, I added a post stating that I don't believe they do have a right to exist.

 

So, a few of my "friends" took issue with that and called me out, saying "they have every right to exist".  One of them was surprising, the other not so much.  How did we get to a time when white supremacists are being defended?  It's crazy.

 

I've defriended their asses in the meantime.

 

[marceline]

 

 

They have a right to exist. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be opposed and shunned at every opportunity. 

 

 

[GMac]

I don't feel they do.  At all.

 

[Juliajms]

I guess I believe they have the right to exist. Isn't the whole point of the 1st amendment to defend thought and speech we not only disagree with, but may find abhorrent? Recently, it's certainly crossed my mind that I wouldn't mind following the European model of restricting hate speech, but at the same time seeing Trump in charge makes me wary of restricting people's 1st Amendment rights. Also, in the age of the internet I don't know how we could stop them from existing even if we were inclined to do so.

[DramatistDreamer]

There is the defense of free speech but history tells us to be wary of when speech crosses the line into action.

 

The problem is that in America, there has been a history of white supremacists also being terrorists. The Klan would most likely be regarded as a white supremacists group yet historically their members were known for committing crimes like cross-burnings on the lawns of Black families in the South, as well as lynchings and kidnappings. 

Sure, now they are known for marching and meetings in conference suites in federal buildings but White supremacists also have a history of transgressing beyond hateful speech.

 

For someone like me, who would most likely be in their cross-hairs, it becomes muddled and more complex than a simple question of whether they have the right to exist as an entity. 

[Juliajms]

^ Totally agree. Any time they cross that line into violence they need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.  I know that I can't fully understand what black people go through when it comes to these groups, but I do take my child to the Jewish community center most days. You can bet after what happened in Kansas there are days when I've sat in my car and wondered if it's really right to take him to a high value target. I'm more afraid of a white supremacist with a gun than I am a jihadist. Still, I get that I have a choice and no one is going to randomly assault us at Target because of our skin color.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Juliajms

[DramatistDreamer]

Time Magazine's "Man of the Year".

 

[Juliajms]

Here's some good news. Biden's "cancer moonshot" bill was passed. If you read the details it's not all good news, but I'm still happy for him and I think this was an overall win.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/joe-biden-cancer-moonshot-bill-232342