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David Cameron's position has to be in peril now.  He's the one who called for this referendum in the first place to try to silence the more Euro-skeptical wing of his party.  He took a gamble, it did not pay off.

 

The reality is that this divide has been building for years.  Many Brits have been convinced (with lots of erroneous information courtesy of tabloids like the Sun) over decades that they are carrying most of the financial load for the EU.  They felt that Brussels and Germany wielded too much power over decision-making, then again many of the countries in the EU also feel that Brussels and Germany wield too much influence over decision-making for the bloc.  Add in the xenophia, blaming immigrants for taking jobs in sandwich shops and servers in restaurants (low wage jobs that Brits generally do not like) and you appeal to many different aspects of the disaffected. Now Britain, like the U.S. should be looking at why wages are stagnant and so low, rather than raising the wage to appeal to the average Brit.  Nevermind the fact that the Leave campaign never gave any specifics on how they plan to regulate immigration.  

Boris Johnson is a boor of an individual but Cameron is not well liked either.  His austerity measures, which are generally regarded as a failure, caused a lot of disenchantment, disillusionment and even pain in some segments of the population.  Cameron, who represents a certain elitist symbol, who is seen as removed from the struggles of everyday British citizens was definitely not a good spokesman for the Remain campaign.

 

I've already heard that Scotland (who overwhelmingly voted to Remain) is re-examining its referendum to stay with Great Britain.:unsure:

 

Sinn Fein is already proposing the possibility of a reunified Ireland (N. Ireland had also mostly voted to Remain).

 

Japan has stopped trading due to the financial chaos that has ensued.

 

Uncertain times, to say the least.

Edited by DramatistDreamer
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I don't agree that wanting controlled immigration is xenophobia.  Trump is Satan as far as I'm concerned, but if you ask people to take in too many people from another culture at once, conflict tends to arise.  Look at your own country, which is probably the gold standard for immigration.  You don't take on more than you can chew, but the people you let in are actually given the help they need to make a good life.

 

In the US, people aren't given much help and the school system is how people tend to assimilate, which means the older generation tends to be lost.  Economics drives our immigration policy (which is why elite republicans tend to favor amnesty), but it is far from ideal from the pov of of working class Americans or immigrants, imo.

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A lot of UK areas with a heavy immigrant population also voted to leave, and in some cases not by close margins, so I think it was more complicated than just racism or xenophobia, but obviously that had to play a part. 

 

In some ways it reminds me of the GOP elites and the Rove types who harnessed the religious wrong and the tea party, only to be turfed by them. David Cameron harnessed these to get into power, and he truly stopped to new lows not long ago in the London mayoral elections (he and others all but called the Labour candidate a terrorist sympathizer and enabler). He's reaped the whirlwind, as he's now resigning. He'll be gone by October.

 

I just hope Johnson doesn't replace him. And if he does I hope Obama makes him squirm.

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I hear you Carl. These really are complicated issues. I just balk at the idea that I must be racist or a hater if I think we have to slowly assimilate people to a western way of thinking or worse yet that it's wrong to want to assimilate immigrants.  I do not want to let in huge numbers of people who don't agree that women and gay people deserve equal rights. I don't blame the Brits for being wary of that either.

 

  I also do want to let in the maximum amount of people that we can bring in and help financially, especially since the US has contributed to the instability in the middle east to say the least. Also, it's just a matter of self interest for the West (especially Europe) to let in as many people as we can without causing social instability. Our aging demographics demand it. The West has really done a poor job of educating people on that front, imo.

 

We also don't go out of out way to help people assimilate in the US. Some of the stories of the Syrian immigrants we have let into the US are down right sad. Just dumped in the midwest with little aid and left to make the best of it in the slaughter houses. At the very least we should make English lessons free and easy to access. Not because I think we need to be an English only society, if I had my way we would follow the Canadian example and teach all children English and Spanish, but because English is useful in getting a better job.

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I can sort of understand the desire to vote leave.   You don't have total control of your money, you don't have total control of immigration, you are financially married to Greece, Spain and other countries that aren't so healthy.   You turn on the news and see the craziness in France and Belgium..it's not a great picture and it gives ammo to right wing nazi race baiters.   On the other hand, if they lose Scotland, watch the pound fall to the point goods are too expensive, watch trade deals go south and so on then they will be sorry.   The EU was a good idea in theory but it forces every country to be on the hook for every other country.  

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Sorry - what I meant was in some of these areas, a number of immigrants also voted to leave. So, as you said, it's more difficult and a lot of minorities in the UK have the same difficult choice. But people like Nigel Farage make it so much about race and overshadow the issues.

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^ Well, I always pause when the right wingers are on any side I sympathize with, that's for damn sure.  I would hate to see the EU as a whole break up, since I see it as a stabilizing force. Anything that weakens Germany and keeps it yoked to the whole of Europe is something I'm in favor of,  but I see these sort of historical movements (including Trump *shudders*)  as so much bigger than myself.  What will be will be.

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 Wonder what the Berniebros and #NeverHillary sect will think of this?  Uh, was that a low-key endorsement?  Actually on CBS this morning, Bernie double-talked his way out of formally endorsing HRC, though he claims the two camps are in dialogue. Whatevs.

Edited by DramatistDreamer
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In terms of Brexit, please remember that the vote was split along age and education factors.

  1. The older tended to vote to Leave, while the younger voted to Remain.
  2. The higher educated tended to vote to Remain, those with less formal education voted to Leave

 

Don't compare it to our Presidential elections, it's more akin to what happens in our Congressional elections where the older voters tend to hold sway as they show up in droves, more than younger people who tend to offer a more reliable turnout in Presidential but not Congressional elections.  The shock ascendancy of the Republicans takeover of the House in 2010 and then in 2014 tipping the balance in the Senate is a more apt example to compare to Brexit. 

 

Except in Brexit, the turnout was pretty good for the younger population but not enough to hold sway over the older voters.  Yes, the Leave campaign appealed to many xenophobes but I agree with @DRW50, that it was not just about anti-immigration, it was about fear of not having enough say vs. Brussels and Germany and it was about not trusting Cameron's words as he also represents the damaging effects of austerity, that he championed so thoroughly.

 

Scotland is reconsidering their place with Great Britain as we speak.  Part of the decision to stay with Great Britain was built on GB promoting their ties to the EU and the stability it offered for Scots.  With that being stripped away, I think the Scottish have good cause to have a 2nd look at that referendum and whether it holds water.  Scottish representatives and MPs are already contending that Scotland's future is with the EU.  

 

I think there will be a lot of unintended consequences as a result of this referendum that Cameron didn't truly need to call (it was a purely political gamble, which he lost), hence the resignation.

Edited by DramatistDreamer
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I don't think that's the democrats problem. Democrats seem to grow more rapidly than republicans do in most voting elections in regards to growth. I think we've seen that through out the last two elections, the problem is largely that the democrats are so large that they end up fracturing at certain points and they have so many agenda's through their voting populace that it's hard to unite them all under one broad banner. Democrats are home to pretty much every minority and minority sympathize known in the country more or less. Republicans are the ones who alienate everyone who isn't a white male, basically. This will eventually end up killing their party if the can't transition to the 21st century sometime soon.

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