Sedrick

KNOTS LANDING

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Recently while going down memory lane regarding what was arguably the best primetime soap of the 80's (KNOTS) this thought came to my mind...

Why in the world was Lucy Ewing never shipped out to Southern California? :blink:

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Charlene Tilton is a horrible actress and wouldn't have fit on Knots which was more character driven. Lucy was far too lightweight to hold her own with Diana (as she got older) or Paige or Linda Fairgate. I do think she could've been useful in the later years after Dallas was cancelled once she matured a bit. But the casting handicapped that character on both shows.

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QUOTE (Chris B @ Sep 18 2008, 01:06 AM)
Charlene Tilton is a horrible actress and wouldn't have fit on Knots which was more character driven. Lucy was far too lightweight to hold her own with Diana (as she got older) or Paige or Linda Fairgate. I do think she could've been useful in the later years after Dallas was cancelled once she matured a bit. But the casting handicapped that character on both shows.

Although Miss Tilton was no Glenn Close, I thought she was good as Lucy. She had the spoiled rich Texas girl thing down to a T, and she was more than able to hold her own in her scenes with Larry Hagman (who could eat anyone in a scene with him without bothering to chew) and the superb Barbara Bel Geddes.

On a related note, Charlene Tilton is playing the late Tammy Faye (Baker) Messner in a biopic based on Tammy Faye's autobiography. Tilton was good friends with Tammy Faye...I saw a photo of Tilton in full costume as Tammy Faye, and the resemblance is uncanny! :D

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I think that she would have been a horrible fit--on paper, Lucy moving and staying in KNOTS LANDING would be a perfect fit. However, Tilton would not be able to support the character-driven stories that the writers would require for her, so either she would have been written out or she would have been relegated to a simple plot point. And, don't get me wrong: I loved the early days of Lucy, were she was spoiled, bratty, bitchy and would give it to J.R. as hard as she got it. But after she turned into a whiny, poor-me princess whore, then barf.

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I've been watching some of season 2. I had forgotten a lot of season 2, most of what I remembered was Fairgate-related PSA stories, especially the "Support the ERA!" rally which involved Karen and Diana in geisha girl makeup, "singing" and dancing. No wonder the ERA was never ratified. And then that whole Sid falsely accused of rape story that I didn't care for, as it was more of the same country folk torment the Fairgates stuff that did a lot of damage to the show many years later (remember the brilliant story about when Karen went all vigilante on paintball people and one died in a car accident and his parents, Ma and Pa Joad, gave those city people a big lecture on their evil ways).

How odd to see Wendie Jo Sperber AND Helen Hunt as Diana's friends. :o And only like a year after this Wendy was playing a character on Bosom Buddies who was probably 10 years older.

Anyway, season 2 has a much stronger flavor than I'd remembered. In the first half of the season they do such a good job of intertwining the various affairs in the cul-de-sac, with Laura and Richard drifting apart as Richard sleeps with Abby (Abby with no taste apparently) while Abby is truly pining for Gary, who is sleeping with Judy Trent, wife of the man he sponsors in AA. Kenny and Ginger and Karen and Sid have stories of their own, although Kenny and Ginger are much too isolated, which probably helps seal their fate :(

I really liked Ginger. I have a feeling that someone may have decided she was too much like Valene, but I don't think it was a bad thing to have somewhat similar characters on the show, it was just the lack of character interaction or story integration. There was something very naturally wistful about Ginger, slightly strange, whereas with Valene, the whole "She's never been to the ocean isn't she so naive" stuff always seemed a bit more fake to me, and I liked Val better when she had some fire.

I was watching the episode Breach of Faith, and there's such a haunting moment when Ginger finds out she's pregnant, a longtime dream of hers, at the worst possible time in her life. The music they use in the scene is perfect, and her reaction is just superb, it really stays with you. It was the same in the first season when Ginger had the flashbacks of when her mother made her have an abortion. I think Kenny dragged Ginger down and she would have been in a better position if he'd left the show (nothing against James Houghton, who did his best with a one-note part). There was this mix of damage and strength in Ginger that could have gone somewhere. I guess for better or worse, they were not interested in the complex women like Laura or Ginger.

Constance McCashin would have been the perfect 40s movie heroine, she suffers so beautifully as Laura having to deal with Richard's humiliations.

Then there's Abby's slow upward climb, as she truly starts scheming and pulling Gary up with her. I loved the Gary/Abby relationship -- they had such natural chemistry, and he was never happier than when he was with Abby. I love the music for their scenes too, in these early episodes, as it's sort of a lite, slow disco, like an 8 Track Dark Shadows.

Abby's flirtations and schemes with JR were delicious to watch, and he had such obvious fascination with her, as she was the closest to an equal he would have found in Knots Landing. I wish JR and Abby had been able to interact more. I know Donna and Larry were on some sitcom together in the mid-70s.

I know David Jacobs said that none of the Dallas/Knots crossovers worked, aside from the one with Lucy, but I thought that JR's scenes with Abby and his finally convincing Gary to pursue power at any cost were very strong. And so were his confrontations with Val, even if they were abbreviated. He was always so intimidated by Valene, for whatever reason.

The episode where Abby exposes the affair between Gary and Judy Trent (Jane Elliott), once they cut away from Judy's whimpering over Gary, there's some real life there. The very brief confrontation between Judy and Abby is so good, and the ending is an absolute classic -- Abby is waiting for Judy to leave Gary's office. Judy tells Abby that she's going to need a lot of luck against Valene (advice Abby would give Jill Bennett almost a decade later). Abby walks into his office, and simperingly smirks something like, "Are you ready for me, Gary?" as they freeze on that shot. It's like a welcome to just what a true star Abby's going to be.

Edited by CarlD2

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I have S2, and I fell out of watching it months ago. I was starting to like the Abby stuff, but hot damn, "Put On a Happy Face" almost did poor Knots in for me, big time. That was just heinous, and Michele Lee's Broadway self ate it all up.

I plan on starting over, but I wish I could just start from the very beginning. The first season's stuff has always jumped out at me as something I'd want to watch. Really, though, I just wish WB would give the show another chance, put out three and four, maybe. Those are seasons I know I'd watch all the way through with no interruptions.

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That horrified me the first time around (almost anything with Diana tends to horrify me and then let's put her in kabuki makeup with Karen and watch them mug and mug and mug). I just skip it on repeat viewings. I think the season improves after that although to be honest Karen is exhausting all the time when the more passive Sid is around. Mac, at least early on, was a breath of fresh air because he called her on her crap.

Season 1 is good, although you aren't missing as much as you might think. For every solid piece of character-driven storytelling, like Lilliame's visit, you have stuff like TEEN BIKERS TERRORIZE KNOTS LANDING!

I think it's cheap on Amazon, or was.

Edited by CarlD2

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Why can't you start at the very beginning? Season 1 goes for VERY VERY cheap (amazon marketplace has new copies sometimes going for 5 bucks).

I'm desperate to see more--the first half of Season 2 did lose me a bit (and as much as I love Broadway, and even have Michele Lee on CD for the cast album of Seesaw that performance episode was cringe worthy) but by the end I was fully hooked. I wish there was some way to track down the later seasons (the rumour is they may come out now when Dallas is done--which should be... a year or so?)

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Dallas should be done in like, months time. The latest release came out around the time FC did (about a month ago, I want to say), and I believe that was the second-to-last set. Then again, they might bundle the movies together in a set by themselves, too. I hope they do continue on with Knots. Like I said, I'm liking it, but as long as I've been reading about Knots, I've known that S3-S6 are where it's at.

Believe it or not, I've never bought anything online...at all. I'm waiting for it to show up at the local gas station, because, sadly, I'm hearing that it's selling in those places now for like 99 cents. Thirteen entire episodes for less than a king size bar of Sugar Daddy.

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Dallas should be done in like, months time. The latest release came out around the time FC did (about a month ago, I want to say), and I believe that was the second-to-last set. Then again, they might bundle the movies together in a set by themselves, too. I hope they do continue on with Knots. Like I said, I'm liking it, but as long as I've been reading about Knots, I've known that S3-S6 are where it's at.

Believe it or not, I've never bought anything online...at all. I'm waiting for it to show up at the local gas station, because, sadly, I'm hearing that it's selling in those places now for like 99 cents. Thirteen entire episodes for less than a king size bar of Sugar Daddy.

There's only one more season of Dallas left and I heard following that release we'll get the two reunion movies.

I have seasons 1 and 2 of Knots Landing and I find both seasaons rather boring. Knots starts getting good at the end of Season 2 and the cliffhanger where Sid goes over a cliff after his car is tampered. The better seasons are after Season 2. I hope we get more seasons. I thought season 2 sold well.

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Did it sell well, Ruxton? I'm glad to hear that. I don't know the sales. I'd heard season 1 didn't sell well?

The show definitely did get a kick in the pants after season 2. Sid's death, Gary being drawn to Abby, Valene's book, Laura being free of Richard only to see him go insane. There's a lot of good stuff there.

I do have a soft spot for the earlier seasons, just because I like Ginger and I like the days when the characterizations were not as set in stone, but I think the "issue" episodes are very badly dated or just dead weight. The show does a lot better with building up story arcs, which starts in mid season 2.

Few soaps were more beautifully paced than Knots Landing. At their peak, the pacing was just phenomenal.

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Season 3 was when it went full on serial, isn't it? I hope Season 2 did decently, I've heard season one underperformed as well (but wouldn't that make the show ideal for someone like SHOUTBox to pick up?) Ann Marcus became one of the main writers with season 3, didn't she?

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Did it sell well, Ruxton? I'm glad to hear that. I don't know the sales. I'd heard season 1 didn't sell well?

The show definitely did get a kick in the pants after season 2. Sid's death, Gary being drawn to Abby, Valene's book, Laura being free of Richard only to see him go insane. There's a lot of good stuff there.

I do have a soft spot for the earlier seasons, just because I like Ginger and I like the days when the characterizations were not as set in stone, but I think the "issue" episodes are very badly dated or just dead weight. The show does a lot better with building up story arcs, which starts in mid season 2.

Few soaps were more beautifully paced than Knots Landing. At their peak, the pacing was just phenomenal.

Season 1 did not sell well but Season 2 was in the top 10 of Billboard Magazine. It was ranked #9 for the week of its release. Dallas and Murder She Wrote also have placed in Billboards Top 10 when their DVD Seasons were released. So I don't understand the long wait for Season 3.

I agree with you about how good Season 3 is with all the changes in the show. In Season 2 I didnt care for Ginger but floved Kenny....

I thought Knots was much better than Dallas in the later season post 89. The last two seasons of Dallas were just awful while KL still flurished.

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Season 3 was when it went full on serial, isn't it? I hope Season 2 did decently, I've heard season one underperformed as well (but wouldn't that make the show ideal for someone like SHOUTBox to pick up?) Ann Marcus became one of the main writers with season 3, didn't she?

At Shout Factory website...fans are hoping Shout picks up Knots Landing if WB refuses to release anymore seasons. They(Shout) picked up Facts of Life when Sony stopped releasing the FOL.

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