EastEnders: Discussion Thread

[NothinButAttitude]

 

True. I don't want Phil near The Vic either; however, I'd prefer Sharon, Denny, and Michelle to be occupying space there. Not Mick & his clan of trolls. 

 

I'm over Whitney too. Part of me hopes she is under the bus, but I think she won't be. 

[DRW50]

I figure it will be Lee or no one. If this is the end of Lee then I can't think of a worse depiction I've seen of suicide and mental illness on a soap, aside from when Storm blew his head off on B&B so Katie could play the Little Mermaid.

[Vee]

I'd sooner he be under the bus than kill himself.

[DRW50]

 

If that happens then I have a feeling the show will leave it as ambiguous and let us think he deliberately went in front of the bus if we want to.

[Skylover]

So they're implying that Max was responsible for the bus crash...

[Adamski]

 

My understanding was that everyone conveniently thinks he's a hero now, but secretly he's scheming with that property developer (or whoever he was). Surely the crash was just a case of the driver having a heart attack?

[NothinButAttitude]

 

This is what I am thinking too. So is Max buying up property in Walford? If so, that'll explain the spoiler I post last night; however, why is he targeting the Carters/the Vic? That's stupid. Whatever. As long as Ian makes Phil, Abi/Lauren, and the Beales/Fowlers suffer, I am all for it. 

 

Tonight's episode was stupid. So we had a stunt with no major characters dying? How pointless. Why not kill off Whitney? 

 

I am glad that they didn't take the cheap way out and kill Lee. However, it makes me wonder how he leaves. I'm guessing he'll walk in on Whitney and his daddy sucking face again, and he'll flee the Square in a total wreck. I'd accept that over him going out in a body bag. 

 

 

 

[DRW50]

I'll just repost my Walford Web comments...

 

I was hoping with a new producer there would be less push of Carmel as some focal point of the markets, or of Walford. Nothing against Bonnie Langford, who did a passable job with ridiculous lines (although they were certainly in character for Carmel, especially, "you saved my market" - I hope Lou gives you a good haunting for that one Carmel...), but she is not the heart of Eastenders, or even close, she's a selfish child-woman who inhales all around her. Many scenes in this episode felt a bit empty to me and she was a good example of why. 

 

I was stumped by the scene with Keegan and Lee. I guess Keegan is stupid and arrogant enough to go into a cafe and try to sell stolen goods (and given that the woman working in the cafe didn't give a damn, maybe this is common practice - if so someone should tell Big Mo, that is if she still exists in the Eastenders universe), but what a bizarre way for Lee to find out about Whitney. 

I didn't really get the scene with Louise and Shakil either. It's not that her reaction made no sense - she's scared, she's upset, she's been through a lot, she's probably humiliated that she had to be saved, especially by someone who had been participating in bullying of her only a day earlier - but it felt disjointed enough to where I almost wonder if something was cut between when she first sees him and when she shouts for him to leave. 

Clearly the show was under a lot of pressure filming these so I guess I should be happy for the parts that didn't feel as strange or empty. 

 

This episode probably was a good window into everything SOC has done so far with Eastenders. 

- genuine intrigue (Max's mission of destruction) overlaid with cheesy dialogue (no one should ever be using Peggy Mitchell lines for dramatic effect) and imagery (rather than being disturbed by the final shot of Max at the window I thought he looked like Holly on Red Dwarf) 

- genuine heart and warmth (Martin and Stacey agreeing to try for another baby) overlaid with pap (the fakeout over whether Martin was dead)

- the lip service of community (people hovering in the Vic, talking about what happened) marred by self-awareness or apathy (everyone played the "where is Dot?" scenes as if they already knew the answer; the strongest emotion in the Vic scenes was Carmel's speech that had no particular purpose or value)

- emotionally affecting scenes that are also incredibly troubling, leaving you to wonder how much of that is intentional, before you are again washed away by familiar melodrama (Whitney kissing Mick JUST as Denise sees, JUST before Lee arrives) 

I'm going to wait and see with Max's revenge. They certainly have chosen the right actor for this type of plot, and while I don't have that much need for a mysterious businessman who of course was from the old days (for a moment I was scared he'd say he too knew Eric, Archie, Gavin, Henry, Ted, Claudette, Peggy, Pete, Den, and any other assorted retcons), I get the idea. I don't believe Max caused the bus to crash. Causing a man to have a heart attack so that the Square can be wiped out for some Nefarious Purpose is beyond DTC, beyond Santer, beyond even Paul Marquess or Kirkwood - it would be too far for Eastenders. I think the show wanted us to think it's a possibility, without suggesting it actually is. That's OK with me (not that they need my approval). Hopefully it will be an interesting story, one that will bring about real change. 

Usually soaps only bring about massive change if they're about to be canceled - an American soap once destroyed an entire town via flash flood, consigning the cast to a new high-rise apartment building, with the longtime matriarchal and patriarchal figures acting as building managers. (it wasn't a bad idea, but the show was still canned by the end of the year). Eastenders doesn't need that level of change to survive, but with a new set and this story likely written to help accommodate it, it is something I hope they ask themselves now that they're going here. Do they need the markets? Do they need the same old businesses and buildings? Can they actually create real change, rather than the fake change soaps often sell ("nothing will ever be the same" [for about a week])? 

I'm glad they gave Max those scenes with Jack to remind us that he isn't just there for some type of wipeout - he does care and he does love people, even the people who don't care about or love him. 

Moving on to Martin and Stacey, again aside from the death fakeout this was the strongest part of the episode for me. James Bye gave his best performance, one that solidifies him as the younger leading man Eastenders has needed for well over a decade, as he processed what Stacey was telling him. It's not just the "we're having a baby" type reaction at the end, it's fear, and doubt, and confusion. He still doesn't completely know that Stacey loves him. He knows that she passed another man's child off as his. He knows that there are parts of her life he simply can never touch. It's a permanent bond to have a baby, it means something, and it comes just as Max's return has made him have nagging doubts about Stacey and their life. He wants a child, and a happy ever ever after, with Stacey, even as much as he sees Lily as his daughter and Arthur as his son. Her asking him that is the greatest thing she could do, yet if the marriage collapses, then this is going to kill him. It's such wonderful conflict, so wonderfully acted by James. His face during that scene was a master class in soap acting, or dramatic acting in general. 

Denise - given that she has a concussion and she was drained from Kim deigning to meet her for one more chance to Denise to beg forgiveness, I didn't think her behavior was that selfish, but there's always been a bit of a selfish core to Denise anyway, so I can't say it bothered me. I'm not sure about her being involved in the Mick/Whitney story - I would have put Shirley or even Tina in that scene - but if it means less time being toyed with by her wretched sister, fine by me. 

Mick and Whitney - now here is where I'm just completely unsure of anything being told. The best I can say is that at least this isn't being presented as a Stax-style affair, but that's the best. We can say that Mick misses Linda. He feels like he's failing her and like he's failing Elaine (essentially the only mother he's ever had). He's disappointed in Lee. He gets to be the big man for Whitney, at a time when he feels smaller than ever. So he wants to protect Whitney, he wants to prove he can do something. 

That changed today when she kissed him and he responded. I didn't actually think the show would take this path, partly because I think his not responding and Whitney putting all of her fantasies onto him would be truer to the characters and be the more interesting story, partly because up to now I just hadn't seen him actually suggest that he wants her. 

Today was unsettling, starting from the time that he didn't correct them over Whitney being his wife (which he would have done immediately up to now, I believe), to where he told her how pretty and special she is (again, what he'd do to keep Linda going), to the kiss, where he was clearly in shock - not over his daughter-in-law kissing him (which wasn't new), but over his responding, and his level of physical and emotional intimacy with her, so intimate that he had to force himself to pull away. 

But this isn't just transference, or forbidden desire. This is a woman - emotionally still a girl, a princess waiting to be saved - who is crippled by years of sexual abuse, which she all but said to Mick seconds before they kissed. Lee isn't just his son, he's a son who Mick knows nearly committed suicide only a month ago. Yet I don't know if any of this is important to the story. If it's just the kiss and that's it, then it won't necessarily be an issue, but if this becomes an affair, then this is monstrous behavior from Mick - predatory and selfish in a way that reminds me of nothing less than Den Watts 2.0. 

I'm left wondering exactly why the depression story was needed if this is Lee's reason for going, as there were many other problems that could have taken Whitney, Lee and Mick to where they are now. As it is I just feel like they made a hash of a serious issue for the sake of what is rapidly turning into one of the most lurid stories I've seen since a forever leering Sean Slater used Chelsea and Carly as blowup dolls. 

I did think Danny Dyer's performance in the scene itself was very good - he's seemed checked out of most of this plot, but for whatever reason, he was right there in those moments, especially the complete bewilderment at what he'd done. 

On a final note, I'm starting to wonder if Babe should have been kept around after all. I was all for her going when I thought SOC's Eastenders was going to be a hugely different show, but now that I see that the sadism and sensationalism are still around (just in different textures), I wonder if she does need to go. I think SOC has done a lot better with her than DTC, at least when she hasn't been doing the awful smiley Mockney routine. She's been great in these last few episodes - her cruelty and callous glee the perfect contrast to all the "community" that always sounds so much more important than it actually is. 

[Skylover]

I like Babe.

 

I don't think Mick and Whitney will have an affair.

[NothinButAttitude]

*crosses finger* Please be true! Please be true! 

http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/news/a820055/danny-dyer-eastenders-future-hint-interview/

[InLoveWithSoaps]

DRW50, I love your post, so insightful.
I personally found the stunt hilarious. The red-herring with Jay was too much. I'm glad they didn't off anyone because they started the year with two sisters dying so that's enough for now. Babe is not leaving anymore? You know what, I've accepted her as the nasty piece of work on the Square and I even find myself enjoying her scenes now so I'm good with that, just don't ever give her a man. She deserves to be miserable!

[Skylover]

All the crap I have to watch on EastEnders and seeing Ben's gorgeous cute face makes it all worthwhile. 

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 Ben and Jay's scenes seem filled with sexual tension a lot, love them together. Maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see. But after hoping for it for a while, I'm actually quite pleased to have a long-term gay/straight friendship on the show.

 

ETA Still not sure about SOC obviously implementing more experimental filming which is leaving me sea sick some of the time, even in in-door scenes.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Edward Skylover

[Darn]

That bus crash seems to have been a whole lot of nothing? Everyone has seemingly moved on the next day. Very weird.

 

Exactly how many contract players does this show have? I swear there are like 50 characters. 

[DRW50]

 

Michelle

Sharon

Jay

Ben

Phil

Lee (not for much longer)

Babe (ditto)

Whitney

Tina

Kathy

Mick

Billy

Honey

Martin

Stacey 

Louise

Bex

Shakil 

Keegan 

Donna

Vincent

Kim

Denise

Patrick

Dot

Abi

Jack (supposedly going sooner rather than later) 

Johnny

Linda 

Lauren

Steven

ian

Jane

Max 

Carmel

Kush

 

I've probably missed a few. There used to be quite a few more, but few have been replaced after last year's exodus. 

 

The bus crash was clearly thrown in at the last minute. The show is all over the place these days. Yesterday's was such a terrible episode I regretted watching it. 

Edited February 3, 2017 by DRW50

[Darn]

Thanks! American soaps have about the same amount but their canvases seem much smaller somehow.