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Loving/The City Discussion Thread


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I wish I could see Savage. She sounds interesting, and quite different from Christine. It also seems like she and Clay had more of a grand passion type of love than they did when Christine was in the role. Did you know Savage was only 13 months older than the last guy who played Rick Alden?

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I spoke about her earlier in his thread perhaps a little unflatteringly (?), but I think I was just unnerved as she was one of the first recasts I experienced. What I remember most was her voice. She had a rich, warm, milky/buttery sound, and she spoke kind of low and slow. Very feline.

Edited by SFK
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I have this somewhere. It's nice seeing it on here. Thank you again for all the work you do.

It's nice that Loving got some attention from the soap press - usually it was a bit of a back number in SOD and to a degree even in Episodes.

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An SOD from November 1988 reviews Loving.

Loving: The Bland and the Beautiful?

By Christopher Schemering

To paraphrase an old saying, it ain't kosher to kick somebody (or in this case, something) when they're down. LOVING has limped along for more than five years, and has been close to the bottom of the ratings barrel during its entire run. Is it a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth? Could it be bad luck? Is it an innocuous serial which neither provokes nor offends anyone? Have dull story lines failed to capture the audience's imagination?

It's probably a combination of all of the above. LOVING, which premiered on June 26, 1983 with a two-hour Sunday night special, seemed to be a winner at the starting gate. It had many things going for it: the show was created by TV-legend Agnes Nixon (ALL MY CHILDREN and ONE LIFE TO LIVE) and AS THE WORLD TURNS's current head writer, Douglas Marland, (who had scripted GENERAL HOSPITAL during its miraculous comeback in the 1978-79 season, and who won two Emmys for Outstanding Writing for GUIDING LIGHT). It was also produced by veteran Joseph Stuart, who had guided OLTL through many of its most memorable moments.

The soap began pleasingly enough with a variety of stories, families, and characters. There were the Forbes, Alden, Donovan and Vochek clans. There was the bitterness of Vietnam veteran Mike Donovan (splendidly played by James Kiberd), who couldn't shake his resentment of how Vietnam vets were treated in this country after the war was over (Included was beautiful location footage taped at the Vietnam Veteran Wall in Washington, DC, which resulted in more emotionally packed set pieces). There was Lily Slater (played by the then-underrated Jennifer Ashe; now Meg, ATWT), who was sexually abused by her father, Garth. His death led into a better-than-average murder mystery. And, there was handsome Father Jim Vochek (Peter Davies), who struggled with his committment to the priesthood.

Frankly, all of this was refreshing, considering almost all the serials of the day were totally entrenched in espionage stories. LOVING was clicking in every department except one: the romantic aspects of the show - the loving. The romantic pairings lacked chemistry and there were so many hackneyed love triangles that one thought the plots were retreads from the soaps of the fifties. Jack Forbes fell in love with Stacey Donovan but married Ava Rescott, an Erica clone, after she became pregnant with his child. (Remember Ava, after suffering a miscarriage, stuffed her maternity outfits with pillows for months to hold on to Jack. A low point.) Stacey hooked up with Tony Perelli, but he impregnated Lorna Forbes, and their engagement was off. Stacey should have stood on the corner handing out birth control information. (Her sister-in-law, Noreen, was supposedly a nurse involved in AIDS research. The show was certainly giving out mixed messages.)

During this mish mash, Douglas Marland bailed out and the show got even worse. Almost every pivotal role was recast, sometimes three times, causing untold continuity problems. The audience was always kept off-balance. Then came the decision to write out most of the original cast, and entire families disappeared from Corinth. After five years there are only four original cast members left: Peter Davies's Jim, Perry Stephens's Jack, Lauren-Marie Taylor's Stacey, and Wesley Addy's Cabot Alden. The romances became a s monotonous as the leading men, who all looked and acted alike. It was a preppie nightmare.

The single exception was a rather sweet, star-crossed romance between poor Steve Sowolsky and wealthy Trisha Alden. Their relationship was thwarted by the dull machinations of the unimaginative villainess Cecelia Thompson (played by three different actresses). More savvy in the scheming department was Trisha's mom, the truly odious Gwyneth, who went after Steve's father, Harry. The elder Sowolsky fell madly in love with Ann Alden. The story line, which included betrayal, bitch wit, and wonderful character development, ended when actor Ed Moore left the show to pursue other interests. John R. Johnston also exited, so Steve died.

All that recasting business was replaced by an appalling revolving door of characters and stories. This overload - especially in a half-hour show - caused more confusion. During the past two seasons there have been write-in and write-outs of: the Beecham family (Linc, Rebekka, Zona, Judd); Zach Conway, Kelly Conway, Rob Carpenter, Lotty Bates, Eban Japes, Nick Dinatos, Tony Benedict, Jenny Baylor and April Hathaway. Jacqueline Courtney was brought in to play Diane Winston, a madam in a bordello. It was a story with possibilities, but it was abruptly dropped. The characters of Marty Edison and Alan Howard were embroiled in a dreary fatal attraction story before their exits. At least the most recent fatal attraction plot, involving Jack, Stacey and Lily, had its moments, perpetuated future story and character development, and gave three talented performers - especially Perry Stephens - some dicey scenery to chew on.

Ironically, the show vastly improved during the writers' strike. There were tightly woven stories ,such as the Clay Alden/Alex Masters "unmasking," a plot with the potential to blow half of Corinth's inhabitants out of the water. There was finally some realistic dramatic ambivalence between Shana and Jim Vochek in their four-year romance. The new sexual tension was far more provocative than falling back on such hoary devices as years of straddling the fence (the priesthood versus marriage issue), amnesia, miscarriage, spies, and a nasty spat with the devil himself. The Jack/Stacy/Rick triangle was equally pleasing.

The introduction of the delightful Linda Cook as Egypt Jones (an Opal Gardner clone) certianly perked things up. Louise Stubbs as her best friend and sassy, one-woman Greek chorus, Minnie Madden, is a riot. Minnie's dance with Kate Rescott to a Frank Sinatra record was one of the most enjoyable moments of the year. One hopes Minnie is not used as the token black on the show. (Wouldn't it be wonderful if Lt. Art Hindman were her estranged son?) Randolph Mantooth's Clay/Alex and Mark Pinter's Dan Hollister have also broken out of the blandness of the former leading men, but variations in costuming would certainly help.

We are living in the world of the one-hour soap opera. RYAN'S HOPE and THE BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL have recognized this by adapting themselves to the hour format within the limitations of the half-hour soap. They might open with a few teasers, but then wisely juxtapose quick scenes with long scenes, which allows for depth and resonance. Both shows often present very effective commercial-to-commercial scenes. LOVING would be wise to adapt this technique. The show is too choppy and the audience has little to savor. The constant interruptions when Ava spoke movingly about her miscarriage and the guilt she felt killed the flow of Roya Megnot's beautifully delivered performance.

LOVING might have recently discovered some snap and crackle, but still no pop. Stop the recasting and the revolving door of new characters, the short-short story lines, the playing-it-safe characters and stories. Take some risks. You're headed in the right direction, but if a show can't have confidence in itself, no one else can.

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I think that if Loving had been on track it could have rode out the 90's - and perhaps lasted as long as PC (2003 or so).

More and more I feel like if they'd stuck with the Loving concept instead of going wholesale into The City, which initially struggled so much to generate story, then they might have maintained a ratings increase. The last year or so of Loving had a lot of strong story. The City did not.

I guess they benefited from the strength of ABC in the 80's and early 90's but sometimes I wonder if the show was ever THAT much of a mess onscreen, considering it did last for 12 years.

Edited by CarlD2
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OMG Carl! Thanks SO much for posting that article! I had forgotten all about Louise Stubbs as Minnie Madden- she was such a delightfully unique character. It's a shame she didn't last longer than she did. She certainly wasn't a token black character, that's for sure.

To consolidate my post, I'll respond to both of your posts together, since they go hand and hand. First of all- Carl- I don't think the show was ever THAT much of a mess onscreen, at least during the main years of my viewership, which were the 1987-1991. I LOVED the show and frankly grew to like it even more than SFT, which I had watched before it. This could also have to do with the fact the I was only 7 when Search went off the air, but I do remember a lot of it and I loved much of the cast. Sunny Adamson, Hogan McCleary, Liza Sentell (Sherry Mathis), Wendy Wilkins(Lisa Peluso), Cagney McCleary, Estelle, TR, Suzi (Cynthia Gibb), Quinn McCleary, and of course, Stu Bergman & JoAnn Tourner.

But Loving fit the bill beautifully and I quickly fell in love with Ava Rescott, Kate Rescott, Clay Alden/Alex Masters, Egypt & Minnie, Gwyneth Alden, Cabot & Isabelle Alden, Trisha Alden & Steve Sowolsky, Harry Sowolsky, Ned Bates, Jack Forbes, Lily Slater, and my fave Loving diva of all-time, Ann Alden. I think the stories I initially remember best are the Ned/April love story and triangle with the popular blonde girl whose name escapes me, the Stacey/Jack/Lily fatal attraction story, the Gwyn/Harry/Ann triangle, the introduction and mystery of Rick Stewart (eventually revealed to be Gwyn's biological son), and the Gwyn/Clay/Ava triangle which eventually turned into the Alex Masters storylline and triangle with his real wife Egypt.

I actually fell in love with the show even moreso than I was with Search. It was the little show that could- as EricMontreal often mentions, it was almost like a secret society of viewers. I have never met anyone in real life, except my Grandmother, who watched the show, especially from 86-91. It definitely didn't feel like a mess to me onscreen- in fact, I felt like they packed a lot of story into each 30 minute episode, much of which was character driven. I certainly felt that it was a lot better than SFT was when I watched that show from 83-86. I loved the pacing of it, I loved the characters, and I especially LOVED the contrasting mother/daughter relationships of Kate/Ava and Gwyn/Trisha. It was clever and ironic that Ava had this wonderful Earth Mother in Kate, yet she was a troubled, spoiled, social climbing vixen, and then Trisha, whose mom was major diva Gwyn, was this sweet, salt of the earth privilidged girl. I found both relationships fascinating to watch.

Did Loving ever set the Earth on fire with their plots? Not really. Was I enthralled with it like I was with Santa Barbara, and to a lesser extent DAYS & AW? Nope.

But I loved the show for what it was and that was character-driven storytelling through rich familial relationships and strong friendships and bonds that went beyond the class system the show set up. I enjoyed the hell out of it from 87-91 and didn't find it at all uneven, let alone a MESS onscreen.

Edited by juniorz1
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It's great to hear all this from someone who watched the show regularly. I remember in SOD's 20th anniversary their roundup spoke to various soap fans and one spoke about Loving being "The Little Soap That Could." I wish I hadn't started watching the show so late in its run. I thought there were some unique elements (like Ava and Kate) which weren't there for The City.

Edited by CarlD2
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