June 23-27, 2008

[Soapsuds]

Nope! Too much hype...IMO....Way too much. AMC, ATWT or Days could pass it next week in the ratings.

[MarkH]

Well, let's talk about this for a minute.

Couldn't that be a fan campaign? An unprecedented one? "The campaign for a dignified mercy killing for GL"?

Right now, it has only been renewed till 2009, right? So, it seems likely we're going to see it die anyway.

But, to help TPTB make the right decision (and not protract the suffering further), a fan campaign to AFFIRM that the show should be allowed to sleep could be waged.

Now, the campaign should have a PURPOSE. What? Well, I don't have personal information here, since I never really watched, but the fans could lobby for the return of Nancy Curlee to usher the show to her death.

For such a specific request, for such a delimited purpose, and for such a noble and important task (to give the show a good end), Curlee might actually agree. There would need to be SOME budget to bring back some favorites to close out stories and to "bring the family home at the end". I'm talking about folks like Grant Alexander...but also others who are not tied to other shows. CBS might agree to do this, so as not to risk eternal fan enmity for the rest of its daypart.

The show could actually plan a dignified death. Indeed, though it is a bit out there, I'd have a real wish (since this is Guiding LIGHT). I'd be inspired by the terrific little Canadian film starring Don McKellar and Sandra Oh. Taglines for that movie included "It's not the end of the world... there's still six hours left", "Party like there is no tomorrow...because there isn't!", and "It's your last night on earth. Go out in style." Basically, though never stated explicitly, the Sun was about to go supernova...and everyone was planning for the big explosion at the end.

So, for Guiding Light, what could be more appropriate than the Light going out? It would be a brief nod to bad stories of the past (Clone Reva; Magical Painting), but mostly to set up a situation where everyone gathers round and says goodbye.

It is the very final image that haunts me. Focus on the sun...bright...looking rather like a...beacon. And then it strobes. And the light reaches out to cover the entire screen, maybe with a little whoosh sound (like there used to be when the lighthouse beams circled round-and-round in the GL opening). Fade to white.

I'm no scriptwriter...but I'd rather see the show plan a decent, heartwarming end than what it is offering now.

[MarkH]

Again. Week to week writing DOES NOT AFFECT THE RATINGS in a meaningful way. Yes, we may see dips and valleys of .1 or .2...but those are trivial. Those are simple random variations around the moving average. This larger trend, of course, is decline and death.

The best analogy I can give is in the muscle strength of an adult from the age of 50 to 100. NO MATTER WHAT THAT PERSON DOES, there will be steady decline and descent in muscle THAT CANNOT BE PREVENTED. Now, there may be week to week fluctuations in strength. "I walked more this week...so I'm a little stronger". That is true! And if the person really works on the muscle, there may even be growth and maintenance. But, in the long haul, the muscle is going to continue to decline and decline and decline. This is called the "inevitability of aging", which is defined as "universal, progressive, deleterious, and irreversible". Hmmmm...that sounds a lot like the ratings trends, doesn't it?

So, how to bring this back on topic? Well, personally, I think the excellence of a Carlivati, and powerful returns like Tina and Marty CAN make a difference...but not in the short run. What you need is a year (actually, they used to say, in the 70s and earlier, five years) of sustained quality to build an audience. I remember John Conboy said that repeatedly about Y&R in the 70s: Five years was the minimum needed for audience building.

Who thinks ABC has five years of patience and five years of budget to let Carlivati work his magic? Who thinks Carlivati has the energy and creativity to sustain five great years? (He may. Many have been complaining that he is reheating the past, rather than creating something new, but he is also trying to honor the 40th anniversary...so he needs some latitude to do this homage AND rebuild the classic base, pace and face of OLTL).

Can you tell it drives me nuts when people expect instant payoffs from stunt casting and the like? WHAT I WOULD EXPECT is (a) a slower rate of decline for OLTL than other shows, and possibly ( a gradual (0.2 HH points per year, maybe) increase in the moving average IF ABC/OLTL commits to a five-year plan. (I'm not so sure about the gain, since the whole TV and soap enterprise is in decline...so it is hard to fight the overall contextual trend).

I realize this will never happen. But when we look for meaningful week-by-week variations, we simply are persisting in the face of the fact that these variations are not meaningful. Give me a clue about how I can prove this to you .

[SteveFrame]

I don't know when the idiots in control will learn what you are saying Mark H. They used to know it and practice it but not today. They are in the same mindset as fans that it has to be instant.

These shows did not get in the shape they are in overnight. There has been way too much alienating of long time fans for way too long. They don't trust the shows anymore and it will take a long time before they come back and learn to trust again.

As I have said before I have watched soaps since 1970 and I have always watched numerous shows and at the start of this year I was still watching all 8 shows either live or on tape or on SON. I am down to 1 soap - One Life to Live.

It is not great every single day, but it is the only soap that resembles the soaps I grew up on. I get to see a broad range of ages on a daily basis. I get to see new characters as well as old characters working side by side. Even the minor characters are part of the story and seem important. It has been a long time since one of the shows has made me feel that.

Other shows have their moments still here and there and catch my attention for a few days, but only OLTL makes me want to tune in everyday.

As I said it is not great ---- it is not perfect ---- but it is the only one near what a soap should be on a regular basis right now. But even with that it is not going to rise in the ratings quickly. OLTL got where it is at due to several years of alienating fans, bad writing, etc. It won't lure them back quickly. It will take a while. And a slow rise is a whole lot better than a quick one. Look at Days in 2003 - it did a big stunt story with the Serial Killer and people came back quickly but they left just as quickly too.

OLTL needs good consistency for a long period of time. It needs patience. And most of all it needs to let fans know they can trust the show.

But it also needs a good lead in and support from the other lineup. Right now AMC and GH are not doing that.

[MarkH]

I edited this down, but I agree with every word in your post.

But I especially like your last line. That is the other serious issue...there is a REASON all these shows are in the toilet together. The whole genre has declined, and everybody here notices when one show on a network goes up, the others on the network generally do too.

So the 'five year plan for consistent quality' (which is the ONLY remedy that might rescue these shows for a while...although I still think that due to social forces, the genre can't survive even if every show is written and produced to excellence) has to be FOR ALL SHOWS ON A NETWORK (at a minimum), for anything really meaningful to happen.

[RoseVioletDaisy]

Sadly, I think the ability for GL to go out with some semblance of dignity passed a while ago. If PGP isn't even gonna try to insert new management just to see if there's any improvement, then a mercy killing is desperately needed.

[WillenFan21]

If GL were to go below a 1.0 what would that mean? Would that put out of the ratings?

[Jess]

giggle giggle giggle.

Actually I do agree with MarkH about random variation, although I think OLTL's trend line has consistently been in the 1.9 to 2.1 range across recent months. The 2.2 might have been the anomaly not the swings from 2.1 to 2.0. I also agree that if soaps, any of them, are going to see meaningful change when they alter course, it is going to take time. All comments about OLTL being great and Ron the salvation of daytime, however, are predicted on the assumption that a majority of viewers still want to watch the soaps that "we" grew up with.

I love the phrase "stunt casting" and every soap is guilty of it these days.

[typoprone]

Not that anyone needs reminding, but ratings for the same week 10 years ago (when, even then, ratings were already going down the toilet.)

June 22-26, 1998:

1. Y&R 6.8

2. DAYS 4.9

3. B&B 4.7

4. GH 4.6

5. GL 4.1

6. ATWT 3.9

7. AMC 3.8

8. OLTL 3.6

9. AW 2.5

10. PC 2.4

11. SUN 1.9

SADDD... :'(

[Khan]

The Kendall/Ryan/Greenlee/Zach/Annie quintet are "poison" only in the respect that no one in charge will give these characters (and actors) the material they deserve.

Why must Annie go batspit crazy over a "zero" like Ryan? Why couldn't she realize "Ryannie" were over and just walk away with her dignity still intact? (Believe me, too, Ryan IS a "zero." You don't boink your wife in some barn, then tell your ex you remember being in love with her, but you're not really in love with her; and still call yourself a man.)

How many more times must Kendall, Ryan and Greenlee play emotional pinball with each other? Even if Kendall and Zach's marriage isn't in jeopardy on account of Ryan at the moment, you know it will be eventually. Why is that? Certainly, a complicated, multi-layered guy like Zach doesn't ask to be wasted like this. Jack and Mary Ryan Fenelli, on RYAN'S HOPE, often experienced conflict and tension in their relationship, because of issues that dwelt within the union and not outside of it; why can't Zendall be afforded the same "luxury"?

Why are Kendall and/or Greenlee always so intent on salvaging a friendship - and I use that term very loosely - which no one in his or her right mind would bother fixing? Why can't these three - meaning, Kendall, Greenlee and Ryan - just leave each other the hell alone?

Why is Kendall sometimes written (IMO) as a whimpy, mealy-mouthed simp?

Why am I being asked to empathize with self-serving, amoral jackasses Greenlee and Ryan?

Why must AMC persist in giving RB and CM four-hankie melodramas to play when it is clear to most people that that kind of material is inappropriate for characters and for performers?

How much longer must I keep asking these questions until someone at the show does something about it?

Okay. Rant over, lol.

Pratt's bible might be wonderful, LoyaltoAMC, but I would not invest too much stock in it, if I were you. Pratt, like GH's Bob Guza, has a tendency to lose interest in his own stories about halfway through, often leading him to make foolish decisions, like ending stories abruptly, with all sorts of story threads left dangling; or having characters make a complete about-face in temperament (especially when the story's a flop) with little-to-no explanation or motivation for a change. I think most SANTA BARBARA fans would attest to that, no, lol?

[catherine103]

doe`s any one know when the dalies come out? TIA

[Jess]

You know I looked at one of Mark or Sylph's charts, I don't remember who did it. It seemed like all those shows just inched downward and then about two or three years ago, the bottom fell out.

[Khan]

Include a final montage beforehand (set to this song) which features all the characters, both veterans and newbies, reconciling, forging new friendships and alliances, and generally moving forward with their lives, and you have a deal.

[Soapsuds]

Toupsy(Gawd I love that name) where are you?? Ratings??

[Soapsuds]

I agree with what you and Mark say 100% but how long has Carlivati been at OLTL?? He was hitting new lows before the strike. Came back and the shows ratings improved. But he hasnt gotten the ratings up like people/fans of OLTL were hoping. The show hasnt even been able to pass pathetic GH in the ratings. I think the man is overrated and people were too quick to praise his work. IMO

As for AMC......oye.....the show has gotten back to where it was. It was getting good and then we get more Ryan, Annie, Adam and the bimbo, Kendall and Greenlee friends again..gag me The show is still a hot mess.